[its-hackers] sys; atsign dragon

Eric Swenson eric at swenson.org
Thu Nov 17 17:31:36 CET 2016

Hi Ken,

Yeah, I was mistakenly referring to the "." directory as the FE file system. Thanks for the correction.

In any case, the issues I was having with KLH10 are no longer. Lars' latest changes to the klh10 branch of the repo -- to load the system sources with DUMP rather than NSALV have made the MIDAS issue go away. It must have been the case that using NSALV to write a large file system from tape was somehow corrupting the file system /disk structure. I'm still a bit curious as to why and may try to narrow the issue down by incrementally adding files to the NSALV-loaded file system until things break and then comparing the disk images from before and after the breakage. I'm wondering if it is just a timing-related issue. I say this because one or two of the NSALV loaded MINSYS tapes that I've found are bigger that the one built by Lars' bootstrap.

-- Eric

> On Nov 16, 2016, at 23:56, Ken Harrenstien <iceklh at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, there is no such thing as a FE file system in the
> KLH10 world -- you just load what you need from the host
> file system and go.  This can be a bootstrap that knows
> how to boot from virtual tape or disk (eg TOPS-20's
> BOOT) or you can simply load the entire operating
> system (eg for ITS) which as you have discovered is a
> lot easier than trying to get the native bootstrap to work.
> Trying to emulate a real FE or a FE file system seems like
> an exercise in particularly cruel masochism.  The host system
> is your FE.
> I did once entertain the idea of emulating the KA10 paper-tape
> bootstrap function, but Dave Moon and Alan Bawden convinced
> me very quickly that the KS10 was the way to go (it's not even
> likely that any KA10 ITS system dumps have survived).
> --Ken
>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 11:18 PM, Lars Brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org> wrote:
>> Eric Swenson wrote:
>> > Ken Harrenstien wrote:
>> >     You're loading ITS into memory from the host filesystem, not from
>> >     the emulated ITS filesystem.
>> > That’s what I thought.
>> I should explain that so far, no rebuilt files are used to boot the
>> system.  I.e. ITS, EDDT, and NSALV are built, but they are not dumped
>> into a new bootable ITS yet.  It's on my todo list.
>> > Are there step-by-step instructions for using KLH10 and starting with
>> > NO disk, to create an ITS disk with the minimum file system required
>> > for boot? I’ve only seen steps that start from a PI/MD file system —
>> > never a MINSYS tape.
>> As far as I know, KLH10 can't boot from tape (or disk).  That may be why
>> there are no such instructions.  However, I emulate the KSHACK; BUILD
>> DOC steps by loading NSALV and DSKDMP from the host file system and
>> proceed from there.
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